Add session notes - Leadership Summit
Add session notes - Leadership Summit
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State of the Kube
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=================
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Identify the following before beginning your session. Do not move
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forward until these are decided / assigned:
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- **Session Topic**: STATE OF THE KUBE
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- **Topic Facilitator(s)**: Tim Hockin
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- **Note-taker(s) (Collaborating on this doc)**: Jason Singer DuMars,
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Nilay Yener
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- **Person responsible for converting to Markdown & uploading to
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Github:** nyener@
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### Session Notes
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- 789 companies
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- 15 timezones
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- 41.3 commits daily
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- 2505 devs
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- 100 days between releases
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- 3549 commits since v1.6.0
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- 200+ meetups
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- 8365 Github forks
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- 4793 open issues on k/k
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- 26.6% commits from top 10 devs
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- 23642 stars
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- 658 open PRs
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Needs SIG label is good on stale issues If it’s old and not relevant,
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close it Open PRs are a problem - should the be closed and reopened when
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they are ready to work
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Companies are not necessarily easy to identify by contribution
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Growth : Change of the number of commits release by release
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Do we want more contributors? Brendan Burns: Maybe not
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E Tune: We can’t continue having more and more content
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B Burns: We need to make it easier to contribute code
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Lots of hard problems remain. This place is even beyond what has been
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done at Google
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Generated code is a huge problem as well
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DOCS API reference is a problem
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People and companies want to contribute/consume but it’s not easy to do,
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e.g. namespace best practices
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B Burns: there’s not one best practice
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Stability first and features second - needs to be front of mind, SIG
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silos cannot exist
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etune: Aren’t update scripts to help keep organized part of the contribx
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problem?
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bburns: there can be organic parts of sub-projects, there’s no reason to
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html docs in there for example
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jbeda: we over-focus on kubernetes/kubernetes
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thockin: we can break it up, but k/k is still the gravity well
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Getting time and leeway to execute on these things is hard/impossible
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We have to assign responsibility and divvy up the work. No one owns it
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so nothing gets done
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SIGs have some part but not all of it, no unified view, and do SIGs know
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what they own
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Conformance is going to be a big thing, especially as more integration
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happens
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#### Q&A :
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- Q: Are we pivoting from accepting technical debt? Yes. But not a
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hard pivot. Instability will cause us to fail A: BBurns: We’ve gone
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past the edge of what is necessary, and now we’re in the area of
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value add via stability
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- Q: Are we going to decide to pay down our debt? A: Given a choice
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between feature/fix, we should err on the side of fix , core should
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be stable, and the bar has gone up fr
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- Q: Are we missing that message? A: We’re talking about it, but not
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doing it - more on this later
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- Q: Did 1.6 accomplish stability? Do we need to re-brand these? A:
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Some SIGs did, yes
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- Q: Do we need to formalize tech debt burn down? Show of hands… A:
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Deferred, but everyone seems interested in stabilizing k/k
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### Conclusions
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#### Key Takeaways / Analysis of Situation
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#### Recommendations & Decisions Moving Forward (High-Level)
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Specific Action Items (& Owners)
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[Link to original
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doc](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bWx40ASZ-6eKvCJO26l84qvYdNSAY-vHAKTMRWS7yyE/edit?usp=sharing)
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Project Goals & Roadmap
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=======================
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Identify the following before beginning your session. Do not move
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forward until these are decided / assigned:
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- **Session Topic**: Project Goals and Roadmap
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- **Topic Facilitator(s)**: Apart Sinha, Google & Ihop Dvoretskyi,
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Mirantis
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- **Note-taker(s) (Collaborating on this doc)**: Jason Singer DuMars,
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Nilay Yener
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- **Person responsible for converting to Markdown & uploading to
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Github:** nyener@
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### Session Notes
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(primarily discussion, for the presentation see:
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[Link](https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1XXHk-oy-8eeqGMGRHQwOolOV4hFHlLu-KDpoXuU-C74/edit?usp=drivesdk)
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)
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BGrant: Need help formalizing the proposal process, it’s not documented,
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need to automate assignment of the proposals, reach out to Brian Grant -
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- Q: Don’t we want to stop taking features? A: We’ll take the idea,
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but not necessarily implement
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Anecdote: IBM has struggled with how to contribute Lots of cross-SIG
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implementations, needs improvement Containerization growth 3% to 15% in
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a year Lower number than expected of companies doing orchestration ECS
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is at the top
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- Q: Does Docker mean the docker runtime? A: Yes. Not swarm or orch
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tools, data is very consistent across surveys - means we need to be
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a strong community and understand the roadmap implications of the
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users. Last docker survey said people use Docker for development
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Aparna: We’re aware of the developer experience, but it needs more
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attention
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Node has a huge surface area, and we saw in Borg as well. Every feature
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touches node/API Machinery
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M Rubin: Perception piece that it’s easy to tie something to node, so it’s an easy place to throw things
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BGrant:Need to take that into account when triaging
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BGrant: check out Istio
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MRubin: Need to look at HPC more
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Bburns: More conflict re: numa vs.
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stable kubernetes
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Etune: The list was not authoritative
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Bburns: Are we after people with “deep pockets” or are we after the community?
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Jbeda:
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work on decoupling over prioritizing new features in the wrong direction
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R Hirschfeld: the initial build experience is very important to overall
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community health
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M Rubin: need to make deprio clear, and why Need to
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make it clear that we’re working on first getting things out of k/k SIGs
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have the ability to set the roadmap
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BGrant: lots of critical features
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that big users need i.e. RBAC, in beta over introducing new APIs, some
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users will not use non-GA features
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### Conclusions
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#### Key Takeaways / Analysis of Situation
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#### Recommendations & Decisions Moving Forward (High-Level)
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Specific Action Items (& Owners)
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[Link to original
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doc](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tIGA2V04C7iAqvMvUa_udy2pPbbWEr6qqlC1piMazjg/edit?usp=sharing)
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Updates : Governance & CNCF
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===========================
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Identify the following before beginning your session. Do not move
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forward until these are decided / assigned:
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- **Session Topic**: Updates : Governance & CNCF
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- **Topic Facilitator(s)**: Brian Grant, Google & Brandon Philips,
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CoreOS
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- **Note-taker(s) (Collaborating on this doc)**: Jason Singer DuMars,
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Nilay Yener
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- **Person responsible for converting to Markdown & uploading to
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Github:** nyener@
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### Session Notes
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[Link](https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1pc-nayPpUZQlS10VPKqc-fb0Y3FXeSLeGAJ81g8NsCg/edit#slide=id.p)
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BGrant: Please do not rathole on minutiae, but please comment on the
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governance documents, we need to understand that this formalizes the
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escalation path B Philips: Steering committee is focused on watching the
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details
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Q: Vertical is vertical in the diagram? A: Bgrant: we need to understand
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how cross-cutting decisions are made and organized
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Q: Aaron C: Escalation should be clearly defined A: BGrant: We want each
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SIG to have a formal charter for responsibility and authority + scope
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Q: Aparna: Definition of what a SIG is? A: Def of what a SIG can cover
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and what it is, steering committee oversees new SIGs, need to resolve
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overlap BGrant: Every identifiable part of the project needs a SIG owner
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Q: Criteria for level of activity? A: Yes
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Q: ETune: is the steering committee deciding what a Kubernetes component
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is A: yes, but not the bootstrap
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Q: What is the responsibilities of SIG to communicate with other SIGs?
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A: This is a very large item of discussion and out of scope
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Q: R Hirschfeld: How do we handle cross-cutting concerns? i.e.
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Operations / tie-breaking authority in the steering committee? A:
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Working groups, SIGs etc can do it, but we need to figure that out /
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yes, e.g. the supreme court Please read the docs Q: Examples of working
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groups? Would snapshots be one? A: jobs, internationalization ETune:
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it’s a mailing list + sharing the activities
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Bgrant: the eligibility for voting is wrong, we know it, and part of
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this is increasing inclusivity Comments until 6/15, in place by 8/1 \~
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need to build tools and mechanisms for voting, need help with this
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Need help with this process, this is a big hurdle for CNCF graduation
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BGrant is on the CNCF technical oversight committee, meetings Tuesdays
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8am PST
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Steering Committee Nominations - get notified : https://goo.gl/bQBQMu
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Q: Aparna: CNCF has been offering training, governing board meeting
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wanted to mention “CNCF has no ambition to interfere with the community,
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CNCF is willing to devote as much as possible” A:
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Q: Same guidelines as the Linux foundation? A: 2 Kubernetes seats, one
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the first year
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Q: Aaron C: CNCF doesn’t define the how but what? A: There are some
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bars, but not that many requirements. Can be discovered on the site and
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in the charter. V 1.0 of the graduation criteria is out. CoC needs to be
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re-written.
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Election by 8/13
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Q: Aaron C: How do we formalize for 1.8? A: Bootstrap committee and SIGs
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until the full committee is formed, Not a clear definition of feature
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size, and that needs to evolve, need people to chip in Lazy consensus
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worked for 1.6 decision making, so we should continue that for now
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Decide here that 1.8 is stabilization, finishing things, need to get
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everything GA this year
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Q: Do we skip features lined up for 1.8 and move to 1.9? A: The
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stabilization work will help this
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Q: Where do we handle this today? Steering committee needs to intervene
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when necessary Resource gaps need to be addressed Aaron C: First thing a
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SIG needs to do is formalize what a SIG owns Need to create a charter
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template ASAP then give SIGs time to come up with charter All project
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pieces need to be categorized as owned by some SIG
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### Conclusions
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#### Key Takeaways / Analysis of Situation
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#### Recommendations & Decisions Moving Forward (High-Level)
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Specific Action Items (& Owners)
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[Link to original
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doc](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ch-aH_dyuL7pXv5ic-2Rb1j5w4us2FCj3U0cgpQTnOw/edit)
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Architectural Roadmap
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=====================
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Identify the following before beginning your session. Do not move
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forward until these are decided / assigned:
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- **Session Topic**: Architectural Roadmap
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- **Topic Facilitator(s)**: Brian Grant
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- **Note-taker(s) (Collaborating on this doc)**: Jason Singer DuMars,
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Nilay Yener
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- **Person responsible for converting to Markdown & uploading to
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Github:** nyener@
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### Session Notes
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[Link](https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1oPZ4rznkBe86O4rPwD2CWgqgMuaSXguIBHIE7Y0TKVc/edit)
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Not using “core” because it is overloaded - substituting “nucleus”
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instead \~ absolute necessities for Kubernetes to function
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Q: Aaron C: What is an add-on? A: Concept is any Kubernetes resource
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managed by the cluster for its own internal consistency/function - e.g.
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extensible cluster functionality / pulling context
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Q: Are CNI also add-ons? A: Yes.
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Q: How do we differentiate between addons and required addons? A: Part
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of conformance, if they are managed as part of the cluster, by the
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cluster manager, they are an addon \~ like a driver in the kernel
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Q: Helm Charts tied to lifecycle of the cluster? A: There’s an issue for
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addons v2 via Justin Santa Barbara, but the lifecycle is different than
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for Helm - it’s possible to use charts, but would prefer sources
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accessed directly for bootstrapping
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Q: How do addons get scheduled? Daemon sets only? A: bash script,
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one-shot scheduler, in Google it’s called “babysitter” and predates
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Borg, inspired kubelet “run once” mode, addon manager manages the
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replicaset object
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Q: Are these strict layers? The concept of layers introduces hierarchy
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and precedence (governance does not have an implicit reliance on
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application layer) A: Trying to avoid 9 layers, so we need flexibility
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in the release process, more modular the better
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Q: Eric Tune: Nucleus : abstract my cloud, Application: Run my workload,
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Governance: Enterprise I need to do stuff A: Yes
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Comment: Let’s make sure we keep this as simple as possible. BG: We want
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to ensure that the user community is not significantly impacted, nor
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cluster operators, one change needed will be breaking up the monolithic
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V1 API group, pods in V1 group, pods in other API group, want to evolve
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them more easily.
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Q: Addons are at the lowest level, but we might want higher level addons
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A: Bootstrapping needs attention, similar to other self-hosting issues,
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some people may not run the aggregated API server
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Q: Three implications: code organization / nucleus and others would be
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in one repo versus another. Where is the line? 2. SIG alignment 3.
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roadmap / where do we invest more? A: 1. Code org is another discussion,
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but there’s a desire for more modularity. SIGs with their own codebases.
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2. 3. e.g. Priority for admission controller was increased for 1.7, want
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to make API aggregation important
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Q: What are the lifecycles around each layer? Would they release
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separately? A: There’s the release cadence, introduction of new
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features, and the evolution of the APIs -- may adopt git flow processes
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Q: Adding extension points is the only thing that should permit more
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technical debt A: Agreed, but may also apply to cloud providers
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C: Need to be able to say no to things that are obsoleted by the list
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C: Cloud provider extension work is being done by one person - this is
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not a good thing
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### Conclusions
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#### Key Takeaways / Analysis of Situation
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Are there questions/concerns?
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We need to get feedback on the docs and diagrams.
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When these are happening, we expect support from all the SIGs, and how
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to work this into backlogs.
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#### Recommendations & Decisions Moving Forward (High-Level)
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Specific Action Items (& Owners)
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||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Architectural Roadmap
|
||||||
|
=====================
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Identify the following before beginning your session. Do not move
|
||||||
|
forward until these are decided / assigned:
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
- **Session Topic**: Architectural Roadmap
|
||||||
|
- **Topic Facilitator(s)**: Brian Grant
|
||||||
|
- **Note-taker(s) (Collaborating on this doc)**: Jason Singer DuMars,
|
||||||
|
Nilay Yener
|
||||||
|
- **Person responsible for converting to Markdown & uploading to
|
||||||
|
Github:** nyener@
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
### Session Notes
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
[Link](https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1oPZ4rznkBe86O4rPwD2CWgqgMuaSXguIBHIE7Y0TKVc/edit)
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Not using “core” because it is overloaded - substituting “nucleus”
|
||||||
|
instead \~ absolute necessities for Kubernetes to function
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Q: Aaron C: What is an add-on? A: Concept is any Kubernetes resource
|
||||||
|
managed by the cluster for its own internal consistency/function - e.g.
|
||||||
|
extensible cluster functionality / pulling context
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Q: Are CNI also add-ons? A: Yes.
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Q: How do we differentiate between addons and required addons? A: Part
|
||||||
|
of conformance, if they are managed as part of the cluster, by the
|
||||||
|
cluster manager, they are an addon \~ like a driver in the kernel
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Q: Helm Charts tied to lifecycle of the cluster? A: There’s an issue for
|
||||||
|
addons v2 via Justin Santa Barbara, but the lifecycle is different than
|
||||||
|
for Helm - it’s possible to use charts, but would prefer sources
|
||||||
|
accessed directly for bootstrapping
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Q: How do addons get scheduled? Daemon sets only? A: bash script,
|
||||||
|
one-shot scheduler, in Google it’s called “babysitter” and predates
|
||||||
|
Borg, inspired kubelet “run once” mode, addon manager manages the
|
||||||
|
replicaset object
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Q: Are these strict layers? The concept of layers introduces hierarchy
|
||||||
|
and precedence (governance does not have an implicit reliance on
|
||||||
|
application layer) A: Trying to avoid 9 layers, so we need flexibility
|
||||||
|
in the release process, more modular the better
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Q: Eric Tune: Nucleus : abstract my cloud, Application: Run my workload,
|
||||||
|
Governance: Enterprise I need to do stuff A: Yes
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Comment: Let’s make sure we keep this as simple as possible. BG: We want
|
||||||
|
to ensure that the user community is not significantly impacted, nor
|
||||||
|
cluster operators, one change needed will be breaking up the monolithic
|
||||||
|
V1 API group, pods in V1 group, pods in other API group, want to evolve
|
||||||
|
them more easily.
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Q: Addons are at the lowest level, but we might want higher level addons
|
||||||
|
A: Bootstrapping needs attention, similar to other self-hosting issues,
|
||||||
|
some people may not run the aggregated API server
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Q: Three implications: code organization / nucleus and others would be
|
||||||
|
in one repo versus another. Where is the line? 2. SIG alignment 3.
|
||||||
|
roadmap / where do we invest more? A: 1. Code org is another discussion,
|
||||||
|
but there’s a desire for more modularity. SIGs with their own codebases.
|
||||||
|
2. 3. e.g. Priority for admission controller was increased for 1.7, want
|
||||||
|
to make API aggregation important
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Q: What are the lifecycles around each layer? Would they release
|
||||||
|
separately? A: There’s the release cadence, introduction of new
|
||||||
|
features, and the evolution of the APIs -- may adopt git flow processes
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Q: Adding extension points is the only thing that should permit more
|
||||||
|
technical debt A: Agreed, but may also apply to cloud providers
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
C: Need to be able to say no to things that are obsoleted by the list
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
C: Cloud provider extension work is being done by one person - this is
|
||||||
|
not a good thing
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
### Conclusions
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
#### Key Takeaways / Analysis of Situation
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Are there questions/concerns?
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
We need to get feedback on the docs and diagrams.
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
When these are happening, we expect support from all the SIGs, and how
|
||||||
|
to work this into backlogs.
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
#### Recommendations & Decisions Moving Forward (High-Level)
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Specific Action Items (& Owners)
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Action Item |Owner(s)
|
||||||
|
------------|------------
|
||||||
|
SIG Architecture Creation (ratified per unanimous vote, 6/3/2017) | Jaice Singer DuMars, Brian Grant Lead
|
||||||
|
Refine and approve Brian’s architecture | SIG Architecture
|
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
[Link to original
|
||||||
|
doc](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nD3Y1-Tbb-hhSNg6TGPRLxKSzIuRSnVfdHginl0brrc/edit#)
|
||||||
|
[Link to original
|
||||||
|
doc](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nD3Y1-Tbb-hhSNg6TGPRLxKSzIuRSnVfdHginl0brrc/edit#)
|
||||||
Loading…
Reference in New Issue